Poll

What are you expecting the models to be?

Author Topic: The Dark Brethren  (Read 7972 times)

Offline Big Boris

  • aka Andy Foster, Heresy Miniatures Owner/Prisoner
  • Administrator
  • Tyrant of the NetherHells
  • *****
  • Posts: 5996
  • Dragon Slayer. At last.
    • View Profile
    • http://www.heresyminiatures.com
The Dark Brethren
« on: October 28, 2013, 12:11:37 PM »
Just out of interest, since the Dark Brethren Cultists are topping the poll, I thought I'd check and ask what you're expecting from the plastic models. I wonder if everyone is thinking along the lines of what I'm thinking, or along the lines of the other thing I'm thinking, which is what I think you might be thinking and not what I was thinking to start with but what I could think if it's what you think.

Current Dark Brethren Cultists here:
http://heresyminiatures.com/darkbrethren


Now are you expecting something along these lines, but with hand weapons and shields and knives and stuff, and hopefully expanded to include berserkers, acolytes, more gribblies, the Tunnel Runner demons, Blights, and their Idol, the Tunnel Dweller (Reborn)

Or are you expecting them to look more or less like that, but to have guns and other tech options and be more sci-fi usable?

Or are you expecting them to look like for want of a better word, Chaos Imperial Guard, and thus 'orrible withered/mutant/fanatic/undead/etc sci-fi Troopers? (If this is what you want, it's not unwelcome, just not what I was actually thinking of when I put it up on the poll. It can be done, oh, yes, with gusto, all for it, but surprised if so)

Important that I nail it down before work begins on concepts etc.

Speaking of, the original concepts for the Tunnel Guard and Tunnel Dweller were done by Mr Robin Carey, whom I intend to get to re-imagine his children for the next go around... Paul Muller sculpted the excellent models for the Dark Brethren and the Giant Slugs based on this art, but I'll be doing it this time around...









Offline Bungle

  • Fallen One
  • *
  • Posts: 3000
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2013, 12:25:46 PM »
I would have expected something similar, the addition of hi-tech on top of lower tech medieval type equipment to make them multi genre would seem to be a bonus an a good idea.

If most weapons could fit on one sprue, it might mean an option to include the same sprue for all future kits with giant slug herder tools on the sprues with the figures.

So would hi-tech be ganger equivalent?
Bungle         Steders loves goats                Ben Loves badgers

Offline Big Boris

  • aka Andy Foster, Heresy Miniatures Owner/Prisoner
  • Administrator
  • Tyrant of the NetherHells
  • *****
  • Posts: 5996
  • Dragon Slayer. At last.
    • View Profile
    • http://www.heresyminiatures.com
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 12:27:49 PM »
It would certainly make sense, to me, to be able to use them as gangs by including shotguns, pistols, etc. It means you have to limit poses to certain ones that can suit all armaments, though.

Offline Bungle

  • Fallen One
  • *
  • Posts: 3000
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2013, 12:40:18 PM »
2 handed spear - holding rifle at waist height? or across chest?

pistol hand - sword hand

firing bow? - firing rifle?

They are plastics.... include the basics and let people convert
Bungle         Steders loves goats                Ben Loves badgers

Offline Big Boris

  • aka Andy Foster, Heresy Miniatures Owner/Prisoner
  • Administrator
  • Tyrant of the NetherHells
  • *****
  • Posts: 5996
  • Dragon Slayer. At last.
    • View Profile
    • http://www.heresyminiatures.com
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 12:49:00 PM »
My current plan, unless majority of people are expecting Manky Troopers, is to do a set of Dark Brethren as above designs, but hand weapons that could be swapped for pistols, followed by a set of crossbow-armed Brethren that could be swapped for laser rifles and shotguns or Worm Hooks, hopefully at that point specific sprues for pistols and two-handed firearms could be done separately, which would mean any gang types I make down the line could also use them.

Offline Bungle

  • Fallen One
  • *
  • Posts: 3000
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 12:51:02 PM »
that seems very sensible.
Bungle         Steders loves goats                Ben Loves badgers

Offline Big Boris

  • aka Andy Foster, Heresy Miniatures Owner/Prisoner
  • Administrator
  • Tyrant of the NetherHells
  • *****
  • Posts: 5996
  • Dragon Slayer. At last.
    • View Profile
    • http://www.heresyminiatures.com
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2013, 12:57:08 PM »
I have to find 10k for the first sprue and then 9k for each additional sprue, so sensible has to be the main order of the day. As much multi-usability as possible!

Offline Bungle

  • Fallen One
  • *
  • Posts: 3000
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2013, 01:01:59 PM »
I can see a mixing with plastic sprues of normally dressed humans would work well  in a manner similar to genestealers cults
Bungle         Steders loves goats                Ben Loves badgers

Offline Dravi

  • Minion
  • *
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2013, 01:29:02 PM »
I voted for Fantasy, but I would think that doing fantasy and then adding sci-fi gribblies as a separate sprue (even a metal add on sprue) would be beneficial and allow easy swaps.

Is it possible to do the bodies in plastic and add-on arms as options for either? Sell the bodies and pick if you want the sci-fi or the fantasy arms? Could even do them in metal (similar to the E4 troopers maybe).
"LIAR! LIAR! LIAAAR!"
"Get back witch!"
"I'm not a witch, I'm your wife!"

Offline Big Boris

  • aka Andy Foster, Heresy Miniatures Owner/Prisoner
  • Administrator
  • Tyrant of the NetherHells
  • *****
  • Posts: 5996
  • Dragon Slayer. At last.
    • View Profile
    • http://www.heresyminiatures.com
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2013, 01:40:33 PM »
It's possible but the thing to consider is how much work is involved in producing the metal add-ons separately and if the money is better spent on a sprue or on spincastable moulds. Let's say I produce a set of 6 plastic brethren bodies, the mould for which costs me 10,000. In order to make the money back I'd need to sell them for 10 a set to 1,000 people, which means I'll still have to cast up 1,000 sets of alternate arms at my end as opposed to just telling the plastics guys to do it. If I can fit 6 sets of alt arms onto a regular rubber spincasting mould (as per the hooks at the moment), say make two moulds, allow for slight miscasts you'll get 10 sets per 2 spins, so 200 spins, plus all the metal etc and the end cost per sprue will be more in the metal than it would be for the plastic moulds anyway. So yes, it can be done, but it's not necessarily a brilliant thing. It does save one several thousand pounds if the guns sprue is a separate plastic sprue (as long as I use the same exterior frame size there is a slightly reduced cost in any subsequent plastic sprue after the first) but if I can possibly squeeze them on there it would be better - so maybe it's better to do a sprue of 3 bodies and sword/gun options built-in, than monkey around with doing separate weapons in metal but having more bodies in plastic.
At this point, it's all theory, and this is the sort of thing that has to be nailed down prior to actual sculpting work starting in earnest.
Oh, and I have to stick a little extra onto the cost to cover hiring a new minion to help me pack the 1,000s of orders that will be needed! :drevil2:

Offline Guivre

  • Minion
  • *
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2013, 03:19:04 PM »
Very much more of the same. Not bothered by the higher tech stuff personally, but I can imagine such options could be popular.

And yes, the conversion aspect for plastics is very important, so starting with more basically-armed and minimally-dressed figures would be ideal. That also allows new sprue concepts (variant armour/clothing and weapons/tools) to be developed later, if desired.

Offline BecauseWeIsMonsters

  • Heretic
  • **
  • Posts: 172
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2013, 10:53:47 PM »
I originally voted assuming it would be same fantasy types with some swords and bows and watnot.

But, now I would be interested in the posibility of sci-fi cultists. There are not many good options out there, as I have remarked in another thread a while ago. I have a few generic gas-mask people which would do at a pinch since these days the wearing of gas masks seems to be almost synonymous with chaos cultistry in the far future. But it would be good to have sume genuinely evil culty types who are not waving oversized weapons in the air and without bulging limbs.

So i say if the fantasy models could be made highly convertible so as to take some reasonably sensible sci fi weapons, that would be a plus. I guess a possible danger is in trying to make things flexible one risks falling between one thing and another and loosing some of the character. So if for the sake of consistency of style it were better to go all out for a fantasy look then I am all in favour of it too. whatever is decided, I personally could see myself buying a few squads, and yes even getting around to painting them.

Regarding the whole question of plastics in general and what the priority should be I can not give any serious opinion. I guess it depends on what your expected customer base will bem whether you expect this project to open up to a wider range of people, or would mainly be backed by regular customers, and such questions. For example, if the customer base will largely be the usual suspects who have been collecting fantasy miniatures since the year dot, it may not make sense to do dungeon heroes since many of us will already have various metal minis of elves and dwarves and barbarians etc knocking around. On the other hand, you can never have too many skeleton warriors, you never know when an evil wizard may want to summon a squad of skellies or two.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 10:58:21 PM by BecauseWeIsMonsters »
In 2014
Miniatures completed: 18
Miniatures accidentally destroyed: 8
Miniatures needlessly rebased: 6

Offline Ajsalium

  • Fallen One
  • *
  • Posts: 2699
    • View Profile
    • Role 'n' Roll
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2013, 11:50:42 PM »
Wow, I didn't remember that concept art. It's really brilliant.

And, in fact, there are enough variants for all the enemies you could face in a heroquest-like box set... Just saying... If you go for a thematic game.
EDIT: "Netherhells I: What dwells in the tunnels"
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 03:46:12 AM by Ajsalium »
Blog updated Jan 21st
ROLE 'N' ROLL

Tell the truth, do what's right, and face the consequences. -Me.

Offline leadhead

  • Thread Killer
  • Dark Overlord of Hell
  • *****
  • Posts: 2300
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2013, 03:23:31 AM »
I voted for fantasy.  More, like the ones I've beggared myself on.  I would not mind adding another hundred troops to the cult.  Those runners would be a scream.  Two squads of them to start I think.  Crossbows, swords, spears, what ever fantasy weapons you want.

I do see the appeal of having higher tech options though.  In the end you have to go with what will sell best.  Hoping for fantasy first though.
Cult of Inevitable Decay painted:  93/123 (Heresy), 22/22 (non Heresy)

What was that universal greeting?  "Bah weep, grah nah weep, ninny bong!"  Hot Rod, Transformers: The Movie

I have a tweeter thing now.  I might even use it.  @leadpaintshed if I can figure out how to

Offline beefcake

  • Tyrant of the NetherHells
  • ***
  • Posts: 5277
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2013, 04:28:04 AM »
Fantasy as well.
Just some quick thoughts. If you did a kickstarter for a game with say a 50000 goal that could possibly cover 4 sprues and making all the boxes and floorings (just guessing here).
That would be 1 hero sprue, 2 tunnel guard sprues, one of generic troops, one of the more rare troop types, and 1 sprue for the tunnel dweller if it fits on one. You could make quite a cool game out of that.

Really like the concept art on those tunnel runners especially having multiple eyes.

Offline Bioptic

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: The Dark Brethren
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2013, 03:16:29 PM »
Yes, I voted fantasy with the thinking that 1) good plastic cultists are incredibly hard to find (look at the ones in Reaper Bones II, for crying out loud...), and 2) they would form an excellent basis for a boxed dungeon hack game. You look to have everything you might need for a full set, as beefcake said.

This is possibly looking a bit too far forwards, but if you are doing boxed games, it would be great to keep them themed - possibly even stand-alone (but compatible with each other). Cultists would be a brilliant starting point for 'the upper tunnels' with later sets representing lower levels where things get a bit more...strange. Different monsters, tile sets, and a few new heroes for each box.