Author Topic: WIP Heresy Plastics Project  (Read 35051 times)

Offline Big Boris

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2012, 11:36:32 AM »
There will be people who don't see the difference between 'these things are ready to produce, if the money hits X then it is good to go, this is when it'll be manufactured and this is exactly how long it will take and they have no connection to the other thing' and 'here is a different thing, it might be finished at some point, it might be produced at some nebulous speed and there probably aren't any massive unmentioned mould costs that I'm unaware of', those people probably wouldn't invest anyway, but will no doubt make loud noises on all forums to warn off those who might have done. But they would do that anyway. It's what they do.

Let me try to illustrate it again. The dragon was a series of unknowns one after the other.
It might cost this.
It should be finished then.
It's probably going to take X time to mould
It'll probably be produced at a speed of around x a week.
It'll therefore likely be able to sell for this much.

Plastics are a defined set of will-be-knowns.

The moulds WILL cost X, as per whatever quote i get when the models are completed.
If the money to meet X is raised, then they WILL be manufactured a further X months after payment, as per the manufacturers schedule.

There is no uncertainty factor of 'I should be able to do this or that'. Parts will be mouldable or not. If they are not, they will be remade until they are. When they all are, they will be quoted for and given a timeframe. When they are quoted for and given a timeframe, the project will be given a go on KS with all required information on-screen. if it gets funded, it will go ahead. If it doesn't, it won't. I'm working with the help and advice of someone who has spent the last few years of his life involved in making plastic miniatures at various companies. he knows his stuff, the pitfalls to avoid and so on.  This thing will happen or it won't happen at all. Either way, people will either a) get the stuff they've pledged for or b) not have to part with their money in the first place. It's binary. Success or Fail. If it fails, no harm done to the customer. If it succeeds, plastics for all. Only question is how many different sprues will it pay for if it should succeed, and will extra sprues be manufactured at a later date or the same time?

BTW This wil not be going to China for manufacture. I'm told that if one goes that route, one will spend most of one's time travelling to China to sort out problems. Apparently the Chinese have a tendency to simply change the designs to make their manufacturing process easier! :lol

Offline Big Boris

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2012, 11:38:11 AM »
BTW, the most expensive part of getting plastics done is not the steel moulds as I had imagined. Turns out it's actually getting the resin blanks made as you can't just use any old resin copy. Resins cost between 1500 and 3000 PER FIGURE. Apparently.

Offline Big Boris

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2012, 11:42:21 AM »
This is because the process is so complicated technically in terms of accuracy etc that Renadra only trust one guy at Renadra to make the resin copies, or one other company to make the resins for them, so basically they can charge whatever they like as long as th emarket supports it as there's no real alternative.


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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2012, 11:56:47 AM »
Yes, I understand that. But as I lie there quivering under the blows of the Dragonstick, I'll still be crying out, "This is the wrong stick!'.

I fully agree... :(
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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2012, 12:02:00 PM »
... Andy, you are talking common sense... there is a lot of it about but having viewed various forums, it is most certainly NOT a universal concept :D

I am loving the skeleton sculpt and look forward to what you create (more plastic sci-fi is always a welcome addition in my books).
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Offline beefcake

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2012, 12:04:10 PM »
The thought of Heresy Skeletons is one I'm quite looking forward to. Undead was the first ever army I bought and for some reason I always go back to it no matter what fantasy type game I'm looking at. Maybe I'm just morbid :)

Offline dwartist

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2012, 01:45:47 PM »
Didn't order a Dragon...service from Heresy for me has been excellent. That's what I'm basing my support for the KS upon.

Offline Enazel

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2012, 08:33:24 AM »
I have order a dragon, hell I either paid full price for it either though i was on the pre-order, and I sure it will be worth every penny I paid for it, Will find out on Saturday when my sister drops her onto my desk to put together. As for KS for the plastics if its plastics I am interested in I will be putting money in for sure, probably troopers over skeletons, but will look when it comes.

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2012, 08:57:38 AM »
This looks to be a great project and just the sort of thing kick starter should be used for. Just be sure to have the 'much more than I ever intended to spend but there's too much good stuff to resist' deal at around the 70 mark with a few extras to make people spend even more...

Those resin costs sound ridiculous - I hope that doesn't set things back too much.

Offline Big Boris

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2012, 09:47:39 AM »
Inevitably it will, I think. Massive costs. My optimistic target would be to raise around 50k to 60k, enough for one decent squad or unit box. I think that by the time I get enough figures finished to show good examples of all the follow-on stuff I intend to make, the KS bubble will be popped and everyone will be muttering about how they never got the stuff from one of the other KS they backed by someone else, and there'll be some people still waiting on a dragon or something. Plus, my luck just doesn't run that way, where I'd get 2,000,000 inside a month! (I'd need about 500 different models for that, from troopers through to Dragons and covering every genre inbetween, like Reaper did). The aim for me would be to raise enough funds to get a plastics box manufactured and be able to hire someone full-time to run the day-to-day business whilst I crack on with sculpting all the other stuff.

Offline Big Boris

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #60 on: September 20, 2012, 09:51:36 AM »
Did a great looking head last night, quite chuffed with it, it's even passed the 'how does it look next morning' test but I can't shake the 'it's too big' reaction from doing a six-head scale on a 90mm sculpt. He's got his jaw open, shouting, which makes the head longer, but it's still only 15mm. It looks massively too big. Once shrunk down it'll no doubt look the same as the rest of the range but every instinct I have is screaming 'do it smaller' at this point. (Reduce by 2.5mm). It's at home so I can't photo it just now.

Offline Avicenna

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #61 on: September 20, 2012, 09:57:00 AM »
Keep going Andy!

You seem to be riding the crest of a creative wave right now - stay positive and keep your tools lubricated ;)
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Offline Big Boris

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2012, 01:44:47 PM »
Did I mention by the way that I'd be doing GM Joes down the line? True scale fans rejoice. Well, partly, anyway, as they won't deliberately look like Space Marines. Genetically Modified Troopers. Stronger, faster, better. Prone to psychopathy, drug addiction and killing furies, but they sure do boost moral back home!

Offline Curious Plankton

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #63 on: September 20, 2012, 05:07:49 PM »
The thought of Heresy Skeletons is one I'm quite looking forward to. Undead was the first ever army I bought and for some reason I always go back to it no matter what fantasy type game I'm looking at. Maybe I'm just morbid :)

Yeah me too but I think it's the Harryhausen thing for me with Skeletons.

And the cost of those resin blanks... wow that's insane!

All in all though definitely in for this for sure, don't mind how long it takes, I am pretty excited about it.

Offline Big Boris

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2012, 07:30:15 PM »
It'll take a while yet. Nice to be able to say that without owing anyone anything.

Offline Big Boris

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2012, 06:01:09 PM »
More updates, two new heads, new torso. (Have abandoned first armour torso).

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Offline beefcake

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2012, 09:39:48 PM »
Very cool. I like the first head of the two, maybe it's just the hairlessness.

Offline Gangrel

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2012, 10:55:35 PM »
That head is fantastic!
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Offline Curious Plankton

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2012, 02:46:29 PM »
I agree. That is one annoyed looking fella. Love it

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2012, 09:26:00 PM »
Stuff you've shown us so far is looking fantastic Andy  :thumbup:
Just a thought, if you do the skelies how difficult would it be to do an excess of skulls on the sprue ?
Everyone always seems to want extra skulls for basing and stuff ?
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Offline Big Boris

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2012, 08:30:42 AM »
Each part on a sprue effectively takes up 2000 of space, so I have to be really selective about what makes the cut but I would hope that there would be an excess of skulls on there, yes.

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #71 on: September 28, 2012, 03:35:27 PM »
I wasn't aware each part cost that much - assumed it would be the number of items you could squeeze efficiently  into the area of the sprue frame  that counted.
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Offline Big Boris

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2012, 04:54:11 PM »
Each item you squeeze in uses up space, space costs money. There's a set amount of space available for a total price, depending on complexity and stuff.

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2012, 06:01:04 PM »
So er, I'm going to sound stupid here, but those sculpts are big, is there some process which then reduces them down?

Offline Big Boris

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Re: WIP Heresy Plastics Project
« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2012, 07:36:58 PM »
Yeah, they use a pantograph to reduce them to 1/3rd size. It's one of the tricky aspects of it, you have to sculpt small but big, so details can't be too detailed, there's a limit to waht the plastic will accurately convey. Also, zero undercuts, so everything must be able to draw a direct line of to the outside plane, nothign can be behind other things or it will be obliterated. Proving to be particularly tricky with regards to equipment on belts, for example.