Author Topic: Spyglass suggestions?  (Read 994 times)

Offline Bungle

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Spyglass suggestions?
« on: October 31, 2008, 12:45:08 PM »
Ok I have been thinking... yes I know its a rare occurrence.. but I have.

What suggestions would people have for a nice figure or 4 for Steve to do for Spyglass.

I think Fantasy as that seems to be Steves preferred genre.

GW fans.... is chaos the new black?

I have had a look and there are no Chaos Beastmen now.... there used to be.... could this be an idea for Steve to do? Can they be used as an alternative army?

Chaos without the spikey bits?

I would suggest:

Chaos Beastman leader: as part of the ultimates range
Chaos Beastman standard bearer with separate standard
Chaos Beastman musician

Chaos Beastman warrior with seperate head and right arm and shoulder armour.
A couple of weapon variants with shoulder armour cast on so you don't get that problem, and mix and match heads.. sold in a pack of 4

Steve how long would it take you to do one figure for comments?
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Offline keeper40k

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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2008, 01:15:30 PM »
Sounds like somewhere to start, Bungle.  As Steve already knows, the only time I've bought in bulk was for the German Zombies - in order to make a squad for a game.  If he can find a way to make enough variations for complete squads, he might land a few more sales from gamers, as a lot of us are only going to buy one or two copies of a personality figure.

This is probably the point where Steve says that I was the only person to buy his German Zombies en-masse! :lol:

Offline hawkins

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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2008, 01:15:37 PM »
chaos warriors, skaven, tomb kings, space wolves, all are slated to come out soonish. but the problem isnt the making of the minis, its the costs of casting and having that casting pay you back over and above what went into it in the first place as the FOD4 have said time and time again. (not to mention the tons of little things that eat away the cash flow during the prosess)


there isnt a 'quick fix' to help out, that i can see, though i wish i were wrong. it in my opinion would take time, to build up a range of minis, rather than a dozen or so right now. and once that is accoplished then thre should be a better cash flow. (or more breathing space for the next casts if the previous ones pay out)
id suggest sets, they seem to have more apeal than singles, multi part minis, popular genres, its all there, but as i said it would take time to produce the minis as the restriction is on things other than sculpting.
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Offline SteveB

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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2008, 02:24:48 PM »
Keeper, yes you were the only person to buy bulk zombies. You own a full 12% of all the zombies sold worldwide. That should tell you just how spectacular sales were there...

I've gone into the ranges thing on the Lyn: Succubus thread. But I don't think Beastmen anyway as there is a range out there. Not only that but a perfectly decent boxed set of plastics. Can't compete and chunky figs like beastmen would cost the earth to cast anyway. I'd prefer the Hawkmen but don't think they'd sell well enough at the price I'd have to charge (can't see producing a winged figure cheaper than one of the Barbarians and they were horrendously expensive), or even if they'd sell big anyway.
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Offline Bungle

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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2008, 02:40:07 PM »
Shifted a few more at Fiasco  :wink:

Is there a race that you could hit a niche with?

I was thinking Cowardly Lion Chaos Beastman.... with rank and file etc something that you would enjoy doing and might sell in bulk for units. Perhaps linking zO with a military unit that gamers might like for WHFB

say bulk pack leader, command and 8 rank and file for £30 to £35

command pack of 3 for £18

£6.50 each for leader and individual commanders

£8.50 for a 4 man rank and file pack (1 or 2 sculpts with choice of arm)

At those sort of prices gamers might buy units. Painters might buy characters. Built in discount for Bulk.


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Offline Medved

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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2008, 04:09:59 PM »
Steve are you into any particular historical period?

i remember some of the Sherlock holmes stuff you did and the foundry sculpts of a similar ilk.

i'd suggest going down the pulp/victoriana route.

i'm going to be honest here and say you have a style that more suits the historical market.

your sculpting is clean and stong unlike some of the more wobbly historicals i can see out there

at the moment you are being out-competed by the super detailed/ action/multipose stuff

form what i rememeber your intention was never to do that ( and despite the imperator line it doesnt seem to have been tried by you)

tbh for you to get the prices you charge for character mini (and this is not a dig) you need to have a big range of rank and file at lower prices to justify the extra cost of the character or a game system that justifies it.

i'd like to see a return to the semi-historical stuff please Steve

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Offline SteveB

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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2008, 05:30:10 PM »
It's true that my style probably fits historical(and semi) figs better in the current market but I find that the cost of casting the figs makes it difficult to make any money without pricing yourself out of the market. And historical buyers are traditionally a lot less willing to pay above the odds, even for the best work.

That said, it's an area I'm at least giving thought to...
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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2008, 06:51:43 PM »
Could you do something like put stuff on preorder? Stating clearly that miniatures will not be cast until a certain amount of people have preordered. People who paid in advance might have to wait a while for the release, but at least you would know how interested people really are and that you'd make enough money to cover the costs for casting.
Have a poll first, so you know which miniature(s) to put up for preorder.
Then sculpt a few more to go with that mini, and release them shortly after the first, so you have a small unit for sale instead of just single miniatures.

I still think the main problem is the lack of 'real ranges'. I'm not a gamer but I want to buy stuff that fits together and I want to know that there's more of the same coming up later on. Probably I'm not the right person to comment on this, since I don't own a lot of Spyglass minis - only ever bought some scarecrows, munchkins, noblins and some barbarians (for conversions).

A different approach to beast men sounds interesting, probably because I'm still hoping zO will be revived in some way. I bet Noblins could fit in the setting somehow as well (maybe even have some winged ones as alternative to monkeys).
An army of weird little tinmen/bots would be fun too. They also could be used for a lot of different settings, from pulp to vsf to retro scifi. You could have bigger ones as unit leaders, a crazy little command pack with musician and standard bearer. Specialists from bomberbots that self destruct on contacting the enemy to wheeled (or possibly half tracked) heavies that could be used as tanks/ warmachines.
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Offline SteveB

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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2008, 07:29:32 PM »
I'm not going to take pre-orders for stuff I haven't sculpted yet or even haven't cast yet. Too many things can go wrong.

But I'm at least looking at ranges. I liked zO but don't count on that ever coming back...
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Offline DanG

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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2008, 07:45:34 PM »
It is a real shame about this, and does seem to be a reoccuring issue (along with your health).  I for one love your stuff and have purchased everything you have produced including multiples (which is unusual for me on my limited budget).  I wish I could buy more from you, and it seems a shame that the production costs are so damn high to make it unprofitable to just recast some of your other minis that are no longer available elsewhere (thinking of the old book club elf paladin that you suggested a reworking of)...

It must be damn frustrating at your end to have us suggesting an increased range of miniatures, but no income to support this increase in range, and equally to be told that your miniatures are top notch but to see the sales just drifting...

I just dont know how to help, what advice to offer...  But believe me, when I can, I'll be back for more. 

Sorry i cant do more than that, but its all I can do mate.  :(
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Offline jeff_lamarche

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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2008, 08:05:20 PM »
Well, I feel a little odd posting here, since I'm new to the forums and don't have any practical experience in the industry to pull on other than having talked with a number of mini-sculptors over the years. I'm not going to let my complete and utter ignorance stop me, however, but feel free to disregard it all.  :shrug:

Any problems you are having are clearly not related to your skill or talent; you are a tremendous sculptor. When I first saw your Shae figure in a tutorial on mini sculpting a few years back, my response to the picture was just a simple "wow" before my jaw dropped.

So, your problems are on the business and/or marketing side, and I see a few things, most of which have been at least touched on by other people. Basically, you're dealing with a small niche market, so you have to approach it strategically. This happens to be a niche that is comprised primarily of the following subgroups (insofar as selling minis is concerned):

1. Serious "Display" Painters
2. Gamers who paint

Obviously this is ridiculously oversimplified, and these are not exclusive categories - there are many gamers who are awesome painters, and many "Serious" painters who also game, but in terms of the motivation behind buying a figure, I think these are the two big factors that drive people to buy a particular figure. Although the #1 groups are important to a miniature company because they will sing your praises, give you exposure on sites like Frothers and CMON, and they are consistent buyers. But, when you look at the volume of sales between the two groups, I would bet that #1 is fairly small fraction of total sales. Someone who spends countless hours painting a single figure to perfection only needs to buy a few figures a month to keep busy. A gamer who wants to field a new army needs many more - at least a certain amount to start playing that particular game/faction and even more as they get a feel for tactics and strategy of that game/faction and just generally start to identify themselves with it.

No matter how cool a mini is, a lot of your potential market needs a reason to buy a given figure. Your zO line, for example, was cool as hell, but there was no hook for the #2 people. Now, if you could have made it a zO Bloodbowl team, or started a zO-themed No Quarter army, or something along those lines, then I think your sales would have been higher because you combined the "cool" factor with a practical hook. Even if the customer never actually fields the team or army, once they have an investment in it, they will continue to feed that investment for a while. Because they've invested both time and money into it, that gives them an attachment to the line and an excuse in their own mind for buying them. Remember, this is a hobby, and most people have very finite resources to spend on hobbies, so anything you can do to help them justify the purchase to themselves will help you.

How many times have you heard somebody talk themselves out of a non-essential purchase by saying, "that's cool, but..."?

Don't let them get to the "but" - hit them with both a practical rationale and a coolness factor at the same time, like a one-two combo punch to the brain. "Here's something that's fun to paint, and you can use it to do X". Don't make them think of a practical reason, give them a ready-made one.

Then, once you have a line established, people will look for new releases in that line. They'll justify new purchases because it's part of an army or team, even though their real reason for buying is because you've come up with some new cool take on the concept (Oh, look! Flying Monkey Infantry armed with water buckets FTW!).

You're probably tired of advice, especially from people who have less knowledge of the market than you, so I'll shut up now, but before I do, I want to wish you great luck with whatever you decide to do. I've spent enough time trying to sculpt minis to know just how hard it is. You are a great sculptor and I hope you find the right path for you.

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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2008, 08:56:52 PM »
I'm not going to take pre-orders for stuff I haven't sculpted yet or even haven't cast yet. Too many things can go wrong.
I was more thinking along the lines of once you have sculpted a few minis, you'd have a poll. People -through their vote- tell you which one they'd most like to see getting cast. Then people can preorder the mini (think of it as advanced booking), once it's cast you'd send them the invoice via paypal. Works for books (admittedly there it's done minus the poll part).

But I'm at least looking at ranges. I liked zO but don't count on that ever coming back...
Not counting on it, but that's not gonna stop me from hoping (every once in a while I have these sudden outbursts of optimism).
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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2008, 09:21:45 PM »
there are no sci fi  evil human looking minis out there. (that I know of other than gw ones)

so how a bought some thing like this.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1dc3I3i3w2o/RobOw2uEoNI/AAAAAAAAAzg/OaTckDu4qTQ/scifitrooperevil.jpg
http://picasaweb.google.com/Christopher.Gu/Portfolio#5081976568251982034

or this but with guns.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/news/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/untitled2.JPG

There are all so no future  sci fi looking robots say like.

the x men sentinel , ore the NS5.

x men sentinel

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/787/88638-9174-sentinel_large.jpg


http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/700/700670/x-men-20060407001719296-000.jpg

NS5

http://www.androidworld.com/NS5.jpg

the x men sentinels don't have to be huge you could do them the same size as a human mini.


and not for getting Mutants.

like them out of the new movie Mutant Chronicles.

Offline Bungle

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Re: Spyglass suggestions?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2008, 11:01:13 PM »
Right... loads of suggestions on a huge variety of things here.

Can we let it rest for a bit, until Steve can collect his thoughts and decide which way he is going
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