Poll

What sort of Kickstarter?

Concentrate on Sci-fi based figures and rules
18 (23.7%)
Concentrate on Fantasy BoardGame rules and figures
53 (69.7%)
Do a mix of everything, higgledy piggledy.
5 (6.6%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Author Topic: Kickstarter?  (Read 37561 times)

Offline dadlamassu

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2013, 04:13:41 PM »
I have not tried any Kick Starters so cannot speak from personal experience.  However, a friend supported a zombie game and got an awful lot of stuff that he liked.  Unfortunately he was less than happy when he discovered that each of his several packages incurred UK Customs Duty/VAT and a "service charge" from the post office.  So he will not be supporting a Kick Starter based outside the EU.  Based on his experience neither would I.

I am on a small fixed income and could not afford a single large amount that many KS look for.  I could, perhaps, afford a number of smaller investments over a few months in a project that appeals to me to create a better "portfolio" purchase.

I think that the poll misses out one important option, namely "None of the Above".  This is the one that I would select because I have little use for more "Space Marines" beyond a special figure or two and no use for "Dungeon Adventurers" at all.  I have bought a significant number of Heresy models that I can use in my games that are set in the Pulp Adventures in the 20's and 30s or in almost contemporary settings like those on TV shows like Primeval, Doctor Who, Stag Gate SG1 and similar type films.  I don't see the fascination for zombie games but do play them with friends' figures.

So count this as a "None of the Above" vote.

Offline Big Boris

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2013, 04:26:28 PM »
Thanks. But those are the two things I'm interested in running in the direction of. Customs thing is always going to be a problem for somebody, the way around it is digital downloads, but then I suspect you have the related problem of people sharing files and thus everything has to depend on selling essential, can't-do-without-it figures that people don't already have...

Would love to do an app to use for character sheets etc. No idea where to go to get one made.

Offline jak

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2013, 05:09:35 PM »
I don’t follow or play any particular Game system or collect a specific army I just like making the occasional model figure. I’m a casual purchaser of others companies and your products because you have some interesting and different/unusual offerings. I did intend to vote for the higgledy piggledy option as that would suit me better short term – I’m sorry but neither option at present would appeal enough for me to support - but you need to survive.

Sci-Fi does seem to be overdone at the present time with little variance between the many makers as they all make troopers, heavy weapons, robots etc. that look like 40K with a few changes so GW can’t sue. The NeatherHells has been lurking about your business all the time I’ve known about you so my vote is that you complete this first.

Offline decker_cky

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2013, 05:10:54 PM »
I'd recommend the fantasy board game, and possibly consider doing a lot of the minis in the conversion to trollcast style rather than plastic. That gives you a lot of ready made models to show and convert, and your fantasy line has a lot of interesting different monsters not typically seen in other lines. That could form the basis of a great dungeon crawler or skirmish game.

Offline Big Boris

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2013, 05:26:59 PM »
The only problem with converting to Trollcast is that unless I can persuade Ed in whatever manner to part with the secret of how to use his method myself, I'll be reliant on all my stock coming from the USA via ship, which isn't the quickest of methods to rely on at the best of times, but also be rather subject to being crammed into Ed's increasingly packed production schedule, so there'd be extra delays on any new stock being cast, I'd expect.

Offline Curious Plankton

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2013, 05:37:08 PM »
I went fantasy too as I generally prefer those models and I'm a bit sci fi'd out just now. On the subject of having something tangible before backing, i seem to remember the last mini kickstarter I backed was the Stonehaven dwarfs and they just had decent concept art. I guess depending on if you intend to use existing minis along with new in the Netherhells stuff thwn you may already have something tangible, at least in part.
I always viewed kickstarters as a risk you take to see something you want made. There are a lot of risk adverse people about who want the moon on a stick for nowt, its unlikely they'll change unfortunately.
Either way you go it'll be something I'd be happy to back. I don't mind a bit of a risk.

Offline Penfold

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2013, 06:16:47 PM »
 I have gone for fantasy only reason being is to see the goblins range finished i.e  hand weapons. spears. cavalry and chariot. Seige weapons could be left at this time.
to my simple mind these could be done quickly by doing 5 or 6 multi-part bodies along the lines of HFO012 goblins, head could eathier be multi-part or cast if multi-part you could get a load more different figs for your pounds. Citadel/GW also used to do figs that could be used as both foot and mounted with out loooking to silly, mounts as a minimum would be 3 these could also double up as chariot draft animals (Wolves for me) the most basic  chariot i know of is the celtic one (floor boards and wicker sides with driver and crew man. Plus some Hero types.
As for rules the hardest part could be left for another time (get these wrong and you could kill the whole thing) get the figs out there get them known As people will use GREAT figs with any rule set as long as you can make an army with them
Well thats my :twocents:
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Offline beefcake

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2013, 06:43:09 PM »
I backed both.. But want to change my mind after reading all this and go for fantasy.  :D
I thought diversity might mean more sales but others are correct and focus will be better. I've backed a few ks. One thing I have only seen that was done really early on befores ks was the big thing is demons and monster types. If this was a focus I would back it in a flash, any fantasy I would back though and penfold has a great point about the goblins. Spear and hand weapon choices would work really well for nether hells.
One option may be to create some early bird  £5 off the £100 price or whatever price you choose.
Definitely have miniatures ready to show to punters and show them in dribs and drabs to keep momentum and interest going. Tis is where I think gates of Antares is failing. They, to my current knowledge, have only shown kevs hansa model and about two others. When expecting 300k you need a bit more than that.
People will be reluctant to back conspiring the dragon fiasco. No ideas about that. Considering this though your service on current miniatures has never dropped.
 I Have a rule system I'm working on that you can use if you want with obvious tweaking for your game. However I'm sure you'd rather work with the nether hells game you've been working on.
You could set up some sort of credit/gold coin system where pele can pledge for whatever amount of coins they want. One pledge might be 5gold coins, this could purchase 1 basic human sized miniature. Another pledge might be, nether hells game and 50 gold coins. Allowing them the basic game and to purchase extra miniatures as they want. This gives people a lot more options but complicates things somewhat. I hate to say this is how gates of Antares is using theirs as theirs is floundering some, not to do with their pledge system though which I think is quite good.
As others have said. Scifi has been thrashed, time for something new.
Cheers
(Biggest post I think I've ever done)
Can't wait to see what you have on offer. This may make me drop my RBG pledge!

Offline No Head Ned

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2013, 06:46:30 PM »
Possibly start small, with a "deluxe" edition of Deathball? Deathball, as it says in the rulebook, is a fun beer & pretzel game, and will appeal to boardgamers as well as wargamers. Advantage here is the rules are already written, and have been extensively playtested, plus miniatures range already exists. It'd be a relatively small(ish) project, & would help to generate awareness of/interest in the whole "Netherhells" setting, leading on the full Netherhells RPG? Deathball may be considered Netherhells Lite, if you will.

Pledge X amount to produce a printed DB rulebook, with lots of pretty pictures, plus X amount for a printed DB Arena game board and X amount more for custom made violence dice. Possibly some limited edition Minis for people who pledge certain amounts of money? DB Special Character mini + Star Player card?

Offline solkan_uk

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2013, 06:47:45 PM »
You could have tiers of vouchers for redemption against existing Heresy models, there are fair few people who'd like to support you without having interest in whichever you finally pick.

Offline beefcake

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2013, 07:03:35 PM »
Also looks like its time to start selling off my lead mountain... Bye bye dark elves, and chaos dwarf hobgoblins.

Offline Big Boris

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2013, 07:11:53 PM »
This may make me drop my RBG pledge!

Mine won't be for several months yet! Much work to do to get ready for it, regardless of which way I go.

Quote from: No Head Ned
Advantage here is the rules are already written, and have been extensively playtested,

Ummm...have they? I've never heard much in the way of feedback re: Deathball, and I don't think they were ever really finished beyond the first draft, in all honesty! :oops:

Possibly start small, with a "deluxe" edition of Deathball? Deathball, as it says in the rulebook, is a fun beer & pretzel game, and will appeal to boardgamers as well as wargamers. Advantage here is the rules are already written, and have been extensively playtested, plus miniatures range already exists. It'd be a relatively small(ish) project, & would help to generate awareness of/interest in the whole "Netherhells" setting, leading on the full Netherhells RPG? Deathball may be considered Netherhells Lite, if you will.

Pledge X amount to produce a printed DB rulebook, with lots of pretty pictures, plus X amount for a printed DB Arena game board and X amount more for custom made violence dice. Possibly some limited edition Minis for people who pledge certain amounts of money? DB Special Character mini + Star Player card?


Worth a thought, but I think it would be better as a stretch goal as it would actually use the same dice as NetherHells and thus would really just need a specialised 'arena pit' board tile and a bit of a mini-pamphlet.

But in terms of attitude, Deathball and Netherhells are both very much in the same vein. Lots of rolling dice and laughing at the fate of your enemy (or even your own guy), with pointing and dancing.

Offline Big Boris

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2013, 07:15:39 PM »
PS my favourite bit of Deathball was the Splat! rule for things like Imps and gnomes, where they were smeared over the floor of the arena if they got hurt. Can't even remember if that got written into the draft that was online or not... :oops:

Offline beefcake

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2013, 07:25:58 PM »
I just read this about plastic injection ove on minisculpture
http://minisculpture.co.uk/index.php?topic=1238.0
I don't really believe what he has to say though. Reply no. 4

Offline Big Boris

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2013, 07:33:47 PM »
You don't believe it's that cheap or that expensive? 'Cos he's missed out mentioning any costs involved in getting a resin master of the sculpt, which I understand Renadra charges a premium for, indeed the majority of the cost is due to the resin masters. (You can't just use any old resin copy, apparently, according to Renadra, it has to be specially engineered. Not sure why until I talk to them in person.)

Offline beefcake

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2013, 07:38:49 PM »
I dont believe That its that cheap. Being that he claims to works in the industry and has only a couple of posts I would be a bit reluctant to believe him as I can be quite suspicious of people trying to drum up sales. I've been keeping up to date on all your postings about the cost of setting it up and the fact you've been taking to a person personally about the costs I'd more than likely believe your man. There are a lot of prices not included in there. He's only written about the cost for the mold and not for the labour hours or anything else. 50 - 150 hours of labour for making the mold would be a huge amount in itself.

Oh and I didn't think you would have the ks up soon. I just meant that I'd have to drop the oth one so I can afford yours :)

Offline Big Boris

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2013, 07:44:37 PM »
Yup. Labour costs run around £40 - £80 per hour for highly skilled engineering work like this.

Offline beefcake

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2013, 07:46:26 PM »
Yeah. Just read the reply on minisculpture. As you said. He may be worth contacting. He made quite a good looking resin pressure pot.

Offline Bungle

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2013, 09:09:01 PM »
Andy, personally I would keep it small, 10 figures for £45 including postage worldwide, with a low goal to get into production.... say £5k with luck you will get many more orders.

Keep it small and you are almost guaranteed to get it funded. Forget the rules.

I would also go for something to complement your existing ranges. You mentioned sci fi truckers some time back... a small gang of 10 figures could be usable in many systems.

You could convert some of your existing figures (have a word with the guys below Kev regarding resin casts of your existing stuff as it might be easier to convert)

IF you go that way, work out how many more figures can be got out of the mould and once they cast enough figures in vulcanisable resin, offer that many limited edition resin versions of the cast with the kickstarter as an add on... say £5 (?) a figure to help cover the costs.

You could always add scifi bikes in metal, and other vehicles in resin as stretch goals.


If you go fantasy.

Do you have contacts for printing (and cutting) game tiles?
Do you have the rules written and ready to go... or at least 1st draft?
Do you have example artwork done? No need for all of it but some.

Learning from GoA, you need to show lots at the beginning or soon afterwards.

Perhaps "ink the troll" might be willing to supply the artwork... as a cut of the KS target?



 

« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 09:10:18 PM by Bungle »
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Offline celtoslegion

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2013, 09:41:43 PM »
My first reaction was to vote for the troopers, but your metal minis are already good value and I own enough troopers, so I would not need another box of 20. Besides, a lot of other companies are already offering plastic Imperial Guard proxies, so IMO you'd try to get into a crowded market and cannibalize your own range of metal minis in the process.

If you are able to do a Heroquest style fantasy boardgame, I'd be very interested. Heroquest was what got me into the hobby - and I'm sure I'm not the only one on these boards. If you can capture the spirit of this classic, and carry it to your Netherhell demons and monsters range, I'm in!
A board game is a closed package, so you can also cater for the non-tabletop crowd with a complete ready-to-play box. Quite a few of my friends like a good game but don't want to be burdened with the other hobby aspects, like modeling and painting.

The question is however, will you be able to do your first boardgame?
There is a bigger risk involved compared to doing a box of troopers, because you move away from your core expertise - designing and casting Miniatures.
For rules, boards, counters, layout, artwork and other stuff you will either have to allow for a bit of a learning curve (in terms of money and time both) or you have to outsource it to a reliable third party - which will also cost additional money.

It's a tough decision.

 
how many 1's are on these dice?

Offline azzabat

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2013, 01:30:51 AM »
I've just bought the Trenchers to add to my Necromunda Delaque gang and love all your Sci-Fi stuff, but having just gotten into Talisman for the first time I'd vote for the Fantasy. I think your biggest asset is your name. I've been buying your minis in dribs and drabs for ages and never been disappointed in the quality or service. Likewise your biggest problem is letting people know you are doing something. I'll happily support a Kickstarter by you no matter what it is, but only infrequently check the KS site. (If I wasn't on the subscriber list I would never have known you were doing a KS.)

I think a "complete" system would work best (with an incentive to get hold of it weeks/months before a general release date) as if it was just figures I'd probably wait to buy them as and when I needed/could afford them.

Keep up the great work count me in for your KS.
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Offline Bergh

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2013, 01:42:42 AM »
#rant about Kickstarter:

For me projects like Kickstarter is for the individual person or small companies having an idea and using it to raise funds for there project.

The Reaper kickstarter is decent enough for me, a bit on the edge and not the perfect example of Kickstarter ideology.


I would have no trouble with Heresy as a single company operation trying some Kickstarter projects. Too small a company to get a chance of a decent bank loan, this is what Kickstarter is for in my oppinion.

Worst I have seen until date now, in the tabletop/miniature business is Blue Table Painting trying raise money to create a stock of painted models, so there will be no waiting time on ordering painted miniatures.......... they seems to me like the bank said no to a loan, so now they are using Kickstarter, this really can't be called a creative project or idea at all. Luckily they did not receive enough support. Why the hell should I send money to a company just for the concept of them having to easier earn money in the future, when they already are bragging about how successful and over-the-top they are?

Whats next? Trillion dollar giant Games Workshop making Kickstarter projects for there future game or relaunches?
Its cheaper to raise $10.000.000 on Kickstarter then getting a bank loan, and you have the money before any investments actually are made. Kickstarter = less risk, less expenses. All in the name of minimal profit boost.

Lets hope that small companies aren't killed off by the giants taking over ideas as Kickstarter.

#End of rambling!
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 01:46:37 AM by Bergh »

Offline BecauseWeIsMonsters

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2013, 02:32:03 AM »
Dont know much about these kickstarters. Seems to be some kind of gimmicky form of venture capitalism.
I probably wont support any kickstarter, but I will keep buying Heresy miniatures cos they are awesome.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 02:40:03 AM by BecauseWeIsMonsters »
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Offline RayzrYR

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2013, 10:15:24 AM »
Hi Guys,

I do believe this will be my first post on this forum, please forgive me if I mention something forbidden, or name the Great Enemy, whomever that may be...
Regarding Miniature/Gaming companies and Kickstarter/the others
I've backed 5, one of those is still active. One failed. One was Kingdom Death :)
Two of the KS I backed were minis only, 3 were/are minis + rules. If you are going to offer rules I would ask, are they ready? Playtested etc ready to go into production/ publication? How much work do they need to get there? Is the KS to get them to publication level, or to publish the now-ready rules?
You are considering offering a game, so if you use your existing catalogue of mini's then the goal can be to get those rules ready/playtested/published, using minis as stretch goals at discounted prices to supplement. They needn't be all freebies, they needn't all be finished product, as I've seen people throw money at good concept art and 3d computer renders. Then of course you have to factor in costs of extras for a game- board/s books/ tokens. I get the feeling you've probably looked into most of this and are trying to get a feeling for what the "crowd" would want to fund.

Have something ready to go, a great deal of something. Concept art, gameplay video, something to capture the interest and excite people. For the troopers, you've already got the pictures to work with. As Bungle said earlier, a small goal, mini's only, will probably succeed. For the board game, have a gameplay video, examples of the rules or turn system ready to roll. Part of the biggest source of "free" media on Kingdom Death was the gameplay videos being talked about and pondered over and pulled apart on board game and gaming forums wasn't it?

Dont look at reaper or sedition wars as examples, I reckon. Even Kingdom Death. They aren't your model. Red Box is closer to the mark, but Tre hasn't ventured into rules yet, though he has said that he working on them for the future. Also, if you haven't already, look at Damsels of Darkmyre. Small, essentially one or two people, but it seems they entirely outsourced their miniature production. Dare I say... Mierce Miniatures?? (I dont wanna get into the whole Mierce/Maelstrom thing) I mention them as they are current on Kickstarter, have achieved their initial goal, and came to get rules published, by selling miniatures they mostly already have made. You have a back catalogue to call on, could you produce the same results? But, flip side of the coin, check out Dominion of the Gods. They had videos. They had finished, painted minis to show, plus more concepts in progress. In the end, they failed to meet their goal.

One last note, whichever way you go. Keep it simple. No exchanges/ swapsies/ tokens. Not on your first go anyway, especially not if you are on your own. It'll turn into a massive headache. If people want to swap they can work out their own Miniature Exchange system through the forum.

Hope I've been a little help, not just rambling.
For the record: I have not yet purchased form your online store; I voted Boardgame.

Offline Remerezz

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2013, 11:33:56 AM »
1st post – I had to make an account after getting your email Andy...

I am a modeller; I love building and converting miniatures (especially scenery). As much as I like playing large scale games; the older I get the less opportunity I find (hehe, I’m 27)....  I admit when I heard about the re-launch of Space Hulk I bought one! Board games are a great way to go; compact for those ‘pull out and play’ groups and inspiring for the enthusiastic modeller!

For me and my gaming group, we play a lot of RPG’s. Recently though we have started getting into specialist games and board games. The first game I officially played was Gorkamorka. Now we are getting into Necromunda, Mordheim, Deathball (starting from Tuesday. Those rules where difficult to find by the way  :whaaa:) etc.

My point is, for people like me, what you produce is fantastic. All the miniatures in your range would be great in all of these games (maybe not Gorkamorka). You offer diversity – and MONSTERS! :twisted:

I voted for ‘Concentrate on Fantasy BoardGame rules and figures’, because it’s where you are strongest at the moment. Although largely a ‘Gothic’ Sci-fi gamer – I love a good dungeon crawl! All the people commenting on here have it right – too many Imperial Guard wannabes at the moment (though there are not enough gang style miniatures, cough-cough, wink-wink  :wink:)!

I cannot offer any opinion in regards to KS’s. I am largely a hermit when it comes to the internet. But when I got your email I was ready to give you my last penny – if I had one to give! In all honesty I’m not sure about helping you with a KS (I need to see how my new job goes), though in the meantime I am going to help you however I can. This may start with making a Deathball arena (manic cackling  muahahahaha)....

Anyway, enough rambling from me (glad to see I’m not the only one who does it though)!

Daz
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