Who should win?

[Beastlord]

The show we have just been to had an interesting scoring system for their painting competition. They had 5 different criteria which applied to each category but were weighted in different ways. The criteria were as follows:

Category		Difficulty	Creativity	Workmanship	Painting Skill	Presentation
Stock Figures		5	10	5	70	10
Open Figures		15	10	35	30	10
Dioramas		15	15	25	30	15
Vehicles		15	10	35	30	10

So you give points to each section up to the maximum above and then tot it all up. This can then be averaged over all the judges as a percentage score (or added up to give a grand total out of 500). I think this would help in the judging as everyone then has a benchmark to work to and the likelihood of there being 2 with exactly the same score is a lot less. Obviously the weighting and the criteria can be specific to the DoD, but hopefully you get what I mean

I thought they looked busy!  

[Geckilian]

I went for votes - I figure if more judges voted for A for 1st place, it should probably get first place.

[Big Boris]

It's very close on the voting, isn't it? Thought it would be an outright win for 'points' initially, but it's looking like 50/50 almost.

Each of the judges has decided their favourite entries in their own way this year. Previous years I've tried awarding points for Painting, Converting, Story, Composition, Use Of Space, Originality and Wow Factor. But this doesn't always work - once or twice an entry that has high scores in all the boxes bar one or two might score very highly overall, but somehow doesn't feel right. Another entry might make me leap up in my chair and cry out in joy, but due to poor painting might not score as highly as another one that got good average marks across the board. It's a system that lends itself to 'averaging out' entries and the quirky stuff that might otherwise deserve recognition tends to suffer because of it.

So this year I have personally decided my top 3 mainly on gut reactions.Wow Factor and Story have been my main requests. My winner made me go 'Ahah!' out loud and check to see if there was anyone around I could show it to (there wasn't, I lead a lonely life) so that others could share in it. My second place lost out because in my opinion, it just didn't grab me in the same way and make me wish I had created it. Even though it had some very strong elements on the tick list. My third place entry only just edged it over what would be my fourth choice, and those two choices were ranked differently by the 5 judges - it was between entry C and D for me, and one of them just edged it. And it edged it because I'm a ham and love a bit of Old School diorama building but I feel bad about the other entry losing out.

i'm trying to remain vague about the details as I don't want to give away results yet.

[Ben Brownlie]

i'm trying to remain vague about the details as I don't want to give away results yet.

I think not yet knowing on which basis you are going to award the prizes helps you in this

[Avicenna]

Previous years I've tried awarding points for Painting, Converting, Story, Composition, Use Of Space, Originality and Wow Factor. But this doesn't always work - once or twice an entry that has high scores in all the boxes bar one or two might score very highly overall, but somehow doesn't feel right. Another entry might make me leap up in my chair and cry out in joy, but due to poor painting might not score as highly as another one that got good average marks across the board. It's a system that lends itself to 'averaging out' entries and the quirky stuff that might otherwise deserve recognition tends to suffer because of it.

That is why you need to carefully balance how you weight the scoring system - you cant just pick an 'out of 10' value for each item on your list of criteria. It might be that you do 50% for WOW factor, 10% for painting, 20% for the build and 20% for the story, but however you decide to weight it you should be able to represent how you feel. If it doesnt feel right, then you aren't giving them enough 'wow factor' points.

I think it is quite an important step to make if the intent is for the DoD to grow into something larger - people will want to know that they are being judged equally across the board (especially with the fact that none of the entries are anonymous).

I am not trying to be a pain in the arse, and most of what I am saying is more relevant to the future than the present, but I hope you take it in the constructive way it is meant

[Big Boris]

Oh, absolutely yes. But each of the judges will always judge according to their own reactions. And finding the perfect balances between the different qualifying 'attributes' is actually quite tricky. Remember when we took months to decide the winners a couple of years ago? Took me a week of reflection on the points for each attribute and comparing them to my overall feeling for each piece. At the time I was marking each area out of 100% on the basis that all areas were equally important. Of course, I now know that this isn't necessarily the case. It's not just about the ingredients, it's about how good the resulting cake is and how much one wants to eat more of it.

If it was a purely Heresy contest, then it would be just me deciding and you'd get a far more consistent measurement. But 5 people will think 5 things. And above all else, I want everyone to understand and appreciate that this contest is really close, and that the final results are fair in every way once everyone agrees to exactly what the fairest way of deciding should be. That way nobody can accuse us of fixing the contest or some such crap. (And there's always someone who feels that way when they don't win)

[Avicenna]

Thanks for the response Andy

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but wanted to pass the idea on as it worked so well. At the Bugle Call competition there were also a number of different judges - two groups of them judging each category and combining the scores. I know its easier said than done and I am not denigrating what you have done here at all (I love this comp!).

Good luck again to all involved - I'm really looking forward to the results

[alrith72]

That way nobody can accuse us of fixing the contest or some such crap. (And there's always someone who feels that way when they don't win)

 I can't honestly believe anyone would feel that way would they.

[Klute]

I just spent 6 hours staring at this   

[Brandlin]

(And there's always someone who feels that way when they don't win)

Well i'd feel happier if the judges just decided. We entered this competition knowing it was a decision made on the basis of opinion.

Any attempt to justify the choices is not necessary. There is no need to dress up the result with arbitrary maths.

[beefcake]

go on, make the next vote the decider. You know you want to!

[Enazel]

well i gone for points but not 100% convinced on that. Neither way 100% fair, I think next year you have to make this decision before the judges make they choice.

[vampifan]

I've chosen the option for votes. (It's votes that counts!) If the poll ends up tied what happens then? As I'm typing this its currently on 50/50.

[greenstuff_gav]

(And there's always someone who feels that way when they don't win)

Well i'd feel happier if the judges just decided. We entered this competition knowing it was a decision made on the basis of opinion.

and we are all entitled to our opinion; even if it clashes with other people; 's called Freedom isn't it?

plus, speaking for myself, *i* like my entry and that's the important thing

[Carcharoth]

I went for points before looking at the results or reading the thread... can't believe how close it is!
Maybe you should just flip a coin on it?

[Ajsalium]

Yup. I voted for points, but as even this poll is getting a result so close, I think the best solution is granting a joined first prize. After all, if it's being so b****y difficult to select one, that sure means both deserve the first prize.

[caerban]

Mebbe you should make a FoD poll for all the entries and use the placings from that as if it were another judge.

[Avicenna]

The difficulty isnt picking the winners now, it is how the judges calibrate their results. A 6th judge wont really help with that - all that is in contention is whether A or B win and whether C or D come 3rd.

If the poll is a draw, I think Andy should take gut reaction regarding the fairest way of scoring and let that decide the winner

[grekwood]

Mebbe you should make a FoD poll for all the entries and use the placings from that as if it were another judge.

[Ben Brownlie]

Mebbe you should make a FoD poll for all the entries and use the placings from that as if it were another judge.

No way

There's far too many loons around here

[Avicenna]

It also opens the judging up to cliques and haters.

Let the judges judge

[alrith72]

I think whichever way it's decided i think the judges should keep the method they settle on to themselves. Only think that as A or B might have a "here's what you could have won" moment and wish they'd just settled for their bus fair home and the bendy Bully.

[Avicenna]

I think whichever way it's decided i think the judges should keep the method they settle on to themselves.

Good call

[grekwood]

Mebbe you should make a FoD poll for all the entries and use the placings from that as if it were another judge.

No way

There's far too many loons around here

 

 

[Brandlin]

I think whichever way it's decided i think the judges should keep the method they settle on to themselves.

Good call

I'm kinda disappointed its taken this long as my enthusiasm is wavering especially with this continued debate...