Author Topic: Heresy Dragon Big Thread Of Doom  (Read 770702 times)

Offline Vermis

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #775 on: December 29, 2010, 03:59:45 PM »
I apologise for flying off the handle and having a rant.  That was a bit silly.  But there were circumstances, m'lud.  I still think it was pretty ungracious to have a go at Andy on the forums.
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Offline RiTides Nids

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #776 on: December 30, 2010, 02:21:04 PM »
Got to say I'm very disappointed not to have been given priorty, since I must have been one of the first to pay a deposit within 24 hours of you announcing the dragon, almost two years ago. I know i did not pay the full amount but you have got to admit this dragged on so long and there was a lot going on with your money situation and having to move but that must have made others worry aswell as myself that the whole endeavour would come to a bad end.
I love the items you make, thats why I have so many of them (80+ models), thats why when you first told us about the dragon I put my hand in my pocket right away for the deposit. That should have been enough to have secured a place at the front of the queue. I would remind you it was only in the last few weeks you said first fully paid would receive priority.
I would also remind you that when you took my deposit nearly two years ago you inferred completion would be in a couple of months and nothing was said about my deposit being non-refundable, but now it appears the goal posts have been moved.
I don't want a refund I want the dragon, thats why I've waited almost two years for it.

In my opinion, this was most certainly was not having a go at Andy.

I understand all of the posts saying it should have been sent privately, but as the order the models would be sent out was anounced here, it also makes sense to have expressed that concern here where he found out about it.

Also to reiterate, I apologize for losing my cool a bit on the last page, too. But the above post doesn't warrant people getting indignant on Andy's behalf- it warrants a civil reply, and a response to the concern he (as a loyal customer) had about when the model would ship.

Andy has done so, and although I might not agree with what he had to say, he at least did so in a civil manner without attacking someone who has supported him probably more than anyone posting here.

Offline Beastlord

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #777 on: December 30, 2010, 03:41:22 PM »
Blimey! Missed all this... What I dont understand is why anyone would think paying 30% of the price to reserve a dragon would mean yours got shipped first? Its illogical and would be a nightmare for Andy - what if the first depositee didn't pay in full till next year? You'd hardly expect him to still get his first and Andy would be juggling lists allover the place...

Very excited bout getting mine... although the storage/display issue had occured to me too...  :D
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Offline agentmolar

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Re: Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #778 on: December 31, 2010, 11:23:45 AM »
Got to say I'm very disappointed not to have been given priorty, since I must have been one of the first to pay a deposit within 24 hours of you announcing the dragon, almost two years ago. I know i did not pay the full amount but you have got to admit this dragged on so long and there was a lot going on with your money situation and having to move but that must have made others worry aswell as myself that the whole endeavour would come to a bad end.
I love the items you make, thats why I have so many of them (80+ models), thats why when you first told us about the dragon I put my hand in my pocket right away for the deposit. That should have been enough to have secured a place at the front of the queue. I would remind you it was only in the last few weeks you said first fully paid would receive priority.
I would also remind you that when you took my deposit nearly two years ago you inferred completion would be in a couple of months and nothing was said about my deposit being non-refundable, but now it appears the goal posts have been moved.
I don't want a refund I want the dragon, thats why I've waited almost two years for it.

In my opinion, this was most certainly was not having a go at Andy.

I understand all of the posts saying it should have been sent privately, but as the order the models would be sent out was anounced here, it also makes sense to have expressed that concern here where he found out about it.

Also to reiterate, I apologize for losing my cool a bit on the last page, too. But the above post doesn't warrant people getting indignant on Andy's behalf- it warrants a civil reply, and a response to the concern he (as a loyal customer) had about when the model would ship.

Andy has done so, and although I might not agree with what he had to say, he at least did so in a civil manner without attacking someone who has supported him probably more than anyone posting here.


I would probably have agreed with you if the words Without Prejudice hadn't appeared on the post. Its a legal term, and such bollocks always makes me see red. I still believe that it was more appropriate to be a pm. Andy replied as the professional he is, the rest of us suggested that he pull his head in. I don't see the problem.

Oh heres my flogging a dead dragon reaction to my own post :)

« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 12:25:34 PM by agentmolar »
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Offline DRAGON

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #779 on: December 31, 2010, 12:40:05 PM »
I love the items you make, thats why I have so many of them (80+ models),
without attacking someone who has supported him probably more than anyone posting here.

Soooo......... because someone has purchased more than someone else they should receive priority ?  :roll:
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Offline alrith72

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #780 on: December 31, 2010, 02:00:06 PM »
Both sides have aired their view, Andy has replied. Can't we just let it die now, it's getting boring  :roll:
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Offline caerban

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #781 on: December 31, 2010, 02:30:31 PM »
I have to say I think that the way Andy has handled the ordering of dragon's is the only sensible way to do it.  Your initial deposit secured a dragon at the agreed price but I don't think it's sensible to assume that it would in any way reflect the order of despatch. What if person A paid their first deposit before person B. Person B pays their balance when the dragon is complete, A does not. Should B then be made to wait until A pays their balance? The only sensible way of doing it is to order despatch based on final payment which is what Andy has done. I've been with The Dragon Project since pretty much day one. I was probably one of the first to put in the securing deposit and I paid off the full amount as soon as I could after Andy allowed. Which is why I come in at 15. But to be honest I wouldn't much care if I was further down the list because I have a lot of faith in Andy's skills and intent. I've kept myself informed and up to date continually, Andy's no slouch in keeping you up to date with what's going on down at Heresy HQ. It's been a scary rollercoaster but it's gonna be worth it.


without attacking someone who has supported him probably more than anyone posting here.


I find it a bit pompous and self-centred to believe that anyone is somehow more supportive than the other people on the FoD. Do you know what other FoDders do or have done to help and support Andy? I don't, I can only say what I do and therefore have no frame of reference to place myself on some hypothetical hierarchy of supportiveness. I'm probably a ways down although I've been buying FoD company stuff for 5 or 6 years now. I pimp Andy's stuff relentlessly, as I do with all the FoD companies, by word of mouth or on forums, to the extent I was once quietly asked to leave a GW and I'm badgering my local independent to see if he'll stock FoD company stuff. I buy anything and everything I feel will be useful to me and some stuff that won't but looks cool. But I don't think there is a FoDder who doesn't. There are those who give up time to help at cons and not to mention the continual feedback and ideas suggestions that the forum lends. I suspect the only person who can give an accurate description of who's the most supportive is Andy. And to be honest I doubt he's keeping track.
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Offline RiTides Nids

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #782 on: December 31, 2010, 06:11:32 PM »
I love the items you make, thats why I have so many of them (80+ models),
without attacking someone who has supported him probably more than anyone posting here.

Soooo......... because someone has purchased more than someone else they should receive priority ?  :roll:

Certainly not... it just means they're not the devil, they're "one of your own" as it were.

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I find it a bit pompous and self-centred to believe that anyone is somehow more supportive than the other people on the FoD

You talk of "FoDers", and yet are putting down another one in the process!

I don't know if you're referring to vectrum, but I was the one that used the phrase about him supporting Andy, and I'm only going on what is posted here. Perhaps you've purchased more than he has... which is good! But the point is that he's supported Andy a lot financially, he is "one of your own".

I've only made a single purchase from Heresy (the deposit that was to be a dragon, and I turned into the gangers). My reason for defending vectrum was that a bunch of you scallywags (yes, I just used that word ;)) jumped all over him for asking for his dragon. I agree that we can drop it now, but I hate seeing people gang up on one other person like that.

Perhaps the term "without prejudice" has a different meaning somewhere else (doesn't mean much here, we would say "without bias" to be an equivalent I think). Also, the emoticon used was called "shock", but perhaps it conveys a different message than the description: :shock:. Either way, it got blown out of proportions... and it's probably safe to say that most of you would like to drop it now and get back to talking about the dragon. Which is fine with me... I just don't want anyone getting walked all over without (in my opinion) good reason.


« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 10:21:47 PM by RiTides Nids »

Offline beefcake

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #783 on: December 31, 2010, 07:04:48 PM »
Such a pity that a really cool thread has now just become squabbling. I'm bored  :yawn:

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #784 on: December 31, 2010, 07:13:21 PM »
Every ones jumping up and down on me for what I asked and pointed out to Andy saying they donít know where Iím coming from and Iím being impatient.    

Fact. If you went in to any shop, pre-ordered a popular item you are given an order number when you  left a deposit (letís say youíre no 10) no matter if you paid the full amount or not. When your item came in to stock the first 9 go before you so when the 10th one comes in the shop would ring you and say your item is in and waiting for you. There is no ďwell number 50 paid in full be for you so you have to waitĒ. The shop keeps a tally as to who paid the deposit first and thatís how the system should work.

Iíve got 9 years of being self-employed experience.  My dadís own company ran for 50 years before he sold up and retired and my uncles own and run two superstores that have both been running for 45 years so Iíve got a bit of knowledge of how these things work.

Thereís others here that are agreeing with me but because of the back lash Iíve had they will not speak up on here so Iíve received sevrial private emails, (thank you for the support)
Now as for having regular updates on the progress of the dragon. I have not had ONE single email telling me about this first paid up first received thing at all. I donít believe itís even been on the forum in fact the only time I can find is in the last 8 weeks or so it has been put on the pre order page. Itís ok saying follow me on twitter or face book for updates but whenever I go on there I just get stuff like.

ďē  @MitchBenn You SWALLOWED an iPod? 12:25 AM Dec 27th via TweetDeck in reply to MitchBenn
ē  Nothing quite like getting up at at 6am to drive to Scotland to see the parents only to have to cancel at the last minute due to weather :( 12:24 AM Dec 27th via TweetDeck
ē  Delight your Trekkie friends by delivering the punchline in a Klingon shout. What's a Klingon drink at Christmas? Egg Nog! 10:10 AM Dec 26th via TweetDeckĒ

Nothing about the dragon or other models.

Also to those of you moaning about me using legal terms, what do you expect? Iím covering my back even though everything I have said to the best of my knowledge is fact.
Should I have put my first post on here like I did? Yes I was replying to Andyís post to me. So does my post make Andy look bad? No, not according to you lot that are criticizing me for standing up and saying thatís not right. So thereís no harm done there.

I did send Andy an email and I had a response.

Oh and while Iím here I may as well cover this too ďthe English know how to queueĒ thatís because most of them of them donít seem to know their rights and those of us that do get moaned at for using them.  

so go ahead moan about me all you like, jump up and down, its just a shame your not willing to behonest and admit that things would have been treated diffrently from any other traider or shop.

Offline DRAGON

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #785 on: December 31, 2010, 07:57:05 PM »
Such a pity that a really cool thread has now just become squabbling. I'm bored  :yawn:
Agreed. As much as I am tempted to reply to vectrum's last post............
 :surrender: this is a no win argument that is going to go round in circles  :roll:
Least I have an awesome dragon to look forward to !  :lalala:
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Offline agentmolar

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Edit - Removed my 2 cents

Oh ok..... just because I know I'm doing it



I suspect that all of the moaning and groaning will stop once they get the scaly goodness in their hands.

Edit - No more stirring of the faecal matter for me  :P

« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 03:51:06 AM by agentmolar »
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Offline Nosferatu

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #787 on: January 01, 2011, 02:42:24 AM »
Least I have an awesome dragon to look forward to !  :lalala:

2011 ...the year of the dragon!  8)

Lets move on. Those who weren't happy (obviously in the minority) with the way things are have made alternate arrangements (and had their say). Everyone needs to pull their head in and get on with life. Everyone adding their  :twocents: is just taking us in circles (and making me a bit angry).  :hmmm
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 02:43:01 AM by Nosferatu »
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Offline Big Boris

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@Vectrum
To be fair though, there have been no updates on the Dragon or any other models on Twitter whilst I've been on holiday over the christmas break. And I do point out on the site that my personal twitter/facebook feed covers non-Heresy stuff, ie things I'm interested in in the real world. That includes posting jokes and tweeting minor celebrities. :shrug: Not sure why that makes you angry. I do post information on there, but you'd have to check the timeline as Twitter only keeps stuff on display for so long.

There has been no new info on the Dragon because I am waiting for news from Ian at Fenris Games, who is casting it. Which I reported extensively on Twitter and Facebook, on both my personal Facebook and Business Facebook pages, even posting pictures of me packing the dragon for posting back in November. Since then Ian has emailed me to apologise for not getting it done yet. I await further news.

And to reiterate, anyone else who is unhappy can let me know. If you just agree with Vectrum, let me know. Otherwise as far as I'm aware it's still just Vectrum and RiTides Nid who are unhappy with this bizarre process that is the Dragon.

This thread is becoming a lead weight on this forum now, isn't it? Let's hope Ian gets me a casting soon...

Offline Big Boris

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For pertinent Tweets, which also go across to the business FB account as well as my personal one, this is the link,which had been in my profile on here for some time.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Heresy-Miniatures-Ltd/111400898872256
 Last Dragon info was on December 6th. Scroll down through the bits about me sculpting other things. If you go through all my tweets ont eh official twitter page, you'll see those ones there too.


Offline geronimo

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There has been no new info on the Dragon because I am waiting for news from Ian at Fenris Games, who is casting it. ....I await further news.

Apologies to all for how long this is taking to get into production, now that it's finished.

As a one-man band I'm in a position where I have to do everything related to the business - which includes ongoing daily sales, contract casting for other companies besides Heresy, repairing/replacing existing moulds, packing & mailing orders, emailing customers and clients, and, of course, making  a large number of complicated two- and three-part moulds for a certain oversized dragon. Given that there are approx 20 pieces to the dragon, with each piece taking a minimum of two processes to produce, and several hours per process, that totals some 80-100 hours of work just to make the first set of moulds - and we'll need two to three sets of these moulds to cast up the complete run of dragons. Even if I were doing nothing else but the dragon moulds (and cashflow, eating, and paying my bills means I'm obviously not) I'd be looking at a solid lump of time.

In real terms, I'm getting time to make about one mould a day, if I'm lucky. Currently at the stage where there are now only 6 more moulds to make (including the three most complicated, the two wings and the tail). Having taken only two days off since November 29th (Xmas Day and Boxing Day), even seven-day weeks aren't providing enough free time to get the dragon done. Add into this the fact that the new trainee I'd hoped to have doing some of the day-to-day casting work has failed to materialise, and the simple truth is that the dragon will just take as long as it'll take.

I appreciate that all of you are desperate to see the beast, and that Andy's probably even more desperate to start seeing castings - but believe me, I'm just as desperate to start casting and mailing them out. This is a huge joint project run between (essentially) two small one-man-band companies, with more than just money and time riding on it.

Hopefully those of you who've waited patiently and faithfully so far have got the endurance to go that last little mile....

Too many ideas....way too little time.
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Offline agentmolar

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #791 on: January 01, 2011, 11:20:45 AM »
No worries Ian.

The only thing I expect is that the more impatient people post up pics of their painted dragons within 2 days of receiving it. If you take any longer you could have afforded to have been more patient  :P
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Offline caerban

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #792 on: January 01, 2011, 03:09:51 PM »
Thanks for the update Ian. Having cast a few resin bits and bobs I couldn't even imagine just how complex that monster was going to be. Keep slogging away, I think Andy will agree that's the MO for this critter :)
I have pertinent retorts but I agree that this is a circular argument based on fundamentally differing viewpoints which are unlikely to be reconciled. Done enough scientific debating to know the situation only too well. So no more flogging of that particular dead dragon, time instead to rub my hands together with glee at my impending dragon :)
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Offline agentmolar

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #793 on: January 01, 2011, 03:32:13 PM »
Oh come on, poke that dead dragon with a stick. You know you want to  :P

I think I saw it move.. honest.



 :whip:


Surely we can all just get along and have a hug. I am taking pre-orders for my hugs.  :angel:
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Offline RiTides Nids

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #794 on: January 01, 2011, 05:54:40 PM »
I don't know about hugs, but definitely a truce/cease-fire/end of hostilities. I never really meant for it to go so far... I just wanted to express my concerns and have others be able to share theirs openly, too!

Great to hear an update on the casting process... Happy New Year to all!
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 05:55:48 PM by RiTides Nids »

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #795 on: January 01, 2011, 07:36:51 PM »
Good to hear the update on the casting process   :boing:
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Offline weareblind

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #796 on: January 01, 2011, 07:56:17 PM »
I don't know about hugs, but definitely a truce/cease-fire/end of hostilities. I never really meant for it to go so far... I just wanted to express my concerns and have others be able to share theirs openly, too!

Great to hear an update on the casting process... Happy New Year to all!

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Offline Ajsalium

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #797 on: January 01, 2011, 10:34:31 PM »
Great to hear an update on the casting process... Happy New Year to all!
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Offline Big Boris

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I feel bad for cursing Ian with the Dragon Bane now...

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Re: The 1st ever Heresy dragon. A big one. [UPDATED Halloween 2010] DONE!!!!
« Reply #799 on: January 04, 2011, 10:31:58 AM »
Andy, I'm sure he'd rather have the work than not have the work.

I can be patient, I've been waiting a while now, so another few weeks won't kill me.
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